Monday, 26th June 2017
Puzzles Solved Yesterday: 83
Home | Register | Login | Current Puzzle | Archives | Leaderboard | Forum | Tutorial | FAQ
Forum Index
 
Page 1 of 6123456>
Discussions on User Beast Puzzles
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.03 04:43:17
I am starting this topic specifically to discuss the User Beast Puzzles separately from the "User Beast Puzzles- Loopy Strings" topic, where the word wrapping is not working because of the excessive length of the loopy strings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Can we assume they're comparable in difficulty to the average monthly beast, rather than this month's nightmarish concoction?
The first 3 I have posted are below the average monthly beast, but now I will post harder ones, as originally this was what MondSemmel requested. I agree Feb2008 is actually the hardest Kwon-Tom Loop Monthly Beast ever posted, as per my testing it is even 50% harder than the 2nd hardest posted.  In my book the 7 hardest ones are (out of the 34 posted):
  - 1:2008/02, 2:2007/04, 3:2006/02, 4:2006/10, 5:2005/10, 6:2006/04, 7:2006/06.
  - June2007 which MondSemmel considers among the hardest only ranks 21/34.
Last edited by Naivoj - 2008.02.03 05:08:33
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.03 05:07:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlelover
Thanks for the puzzles, Naivoj.  I tried your Beast #002.  But it doesn't qualify as easy in my book.  For starters, basic patterns left large parts of the puzzle unpopulated.

It seems to use more counting than foilman's beasts, which is fine.

I seemed to need lots of trial and error, and lots of that was inconclusive.  That makes a hard puzzle.

Alas, I reached a point with "iron clad logic" (including plenty of T&E) where there's an ambiguous connection.  Highlander says I must have made a mistake somewhere earlier, but I've no clue where.  When I spend hours on a difficult puzzle like that just to discover some unknown error, I'm inclined to abandon it.

So, sorry your "easy" puzzle isn't easy for me.  If you have a lookahead parameter in your generator, could you dial it down some to make a beast that's easier for mortals?
The reason I mark it as easy is that it if you use color patterns and highlander patterns everything is forced and no trial and error is required at all. Is it possible for you to solve it as much as you can in loopy without any T&E, then save the position in a file and post a link to this file? Or just post a partially solve section of the puzzle using the topic puzzle editor, and I will comment on the forced moves I see from any posted position.
Last edited by Naivoj - 2008.02.03 05:19:59
PuzzleLover
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1033
Best Total: 38m 17s
Posted - 2008.02.04 05:14:22
Thanks for the offer, Naivoj, but I don't know how to post a file somewhere to link to.  The unsolved portions (upper left, bottom middle, middle/lower right) are all too large for the puzzle editor here.

FWIW I got almost as far without T&E this time (still needed T&E for the lower right corner), and I noticed a right edge spot I'd filled before that might be my mistake.  Several subtle counting/shading deductions (0 or 2 edges, deductions across unfilled edges) were needed.  I'm sure working it before helped to see them.

If you email me at cscott2 at comcast.net I can email you the loopy save file.  Is there a way to make loopy save the current state as a simple description string instead of a full blown save file with history?  I didn't see one.
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.04 09:58:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlelover
If you email me at cscott2 at comcast.net I can email you the loopy save file.  Is there a way to make loopy save the current state as a simple description string instead of a full blown save file with history?  I didn't see one.
I am glad you did better the 2nd time around. I just sent you an email. No I do not know how to reduce the size of the loopy save file, but send the full size save file anyway.
PuzzleLover
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1033
Best Total: 38m 17s
Posted - 2008.02.05 01:56:01
Hi, sorry I typo'ed my email address.  It's cscotth2 at comcast.net .  Thanks for your willingness to take a look.
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.05 02:21:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlelover
Hi, sorry I typo'ed my email address.  It's cscotth2 at comcast.net .  Thanks for your willingness to take a look.
I just sent another email.
penthf
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 507
Best Total: 35m 11s
Posted - 2008.02.06 21:07:19
For hosting files externally, I can strongly recommend RapidShare!

RapidShare

Hosting and downloading are for free, and no registration is needed.
You have to wait for about one minute before the download starts. (Enough time for some of you to finish half of the weekly challenge, I suppose...)
chairman
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1395
Best Total: 17m 32s
Posted - 2008.02.07 12:17:58
Quote:
Originally Posted by naivoj
In my book the 7 hardest ones are (out of the 34 posted):
  - 1:2008/02, 2:2007/04, 3:2006/02, 4:2006/10, 5:2005/10, 6:2006/04, 7:2006/06.
  - June2007 which MondSemmel considers among the hardest only ranks 21/34.

Thanks again for the puzzles. In my opinion, March 2007 is the beastiest beast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naivoj
The reason I mark it (#2) as easy is that it if you use color patterns and highlander patterns everything is forced and no trial and error is required at all.

That is impressive. I think I'll try and learn to apply Rapidshare to show a point at which I got stuck.
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.08 00:42:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman
In my opinion, March 2007 is the beastiest beast.
In my testing March 2007 ranks 11/34.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman
..., #2, ... I think I'll try and learn to apply Rapidshare to show a point at which I got stuck.
Or you can just post an unsolved section using the forum puzzle editor. The largest unsolved areas in the loopy save position that PuzzleLover email me were only 15x14 and 13x11. But I recommend that you post the max size allowed 20x14, so the position is as clear as possible.
chairman
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1395
Best Total: 17m 32s
Posted - 2008.02.08 18:48:21
When solving #2 for the second time, I almost closed the loop without trial and error. The remainder could be finished by heart. Still I am curious how it can be solved by patterns. Here is the endgame (Rapidshare is easy indeed!).
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.09 04:42:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman
When solving #2 ... Still I am curious how it can be solved by patterns.
To complete this without trial and error (or intuition) 2 color rules and 1 color pattern are required. I drew colored pictures to describe them in this word document UserBeast#2ColorTips  (I agree Rapidshare is easy).
Last edited by Naivoj - 2008.02.09 04:43:50
chairman
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1395
Best Total: 17m 32s
Posted - 2008.02.09 23:01:25

Now I finally fully see the surplus value of color rules! The 'diagonal direction color rule' tells that the big (known to be red) question mark at the top row and the spot surrounded by small question marks at the second row have opposite colors (so the latter is yellow). The same rule tells that the ? at the middle row is red, then it tells that the spot left of the 3 is yellow. Since the 3 is known to be yellow, there must be a cross west of the 3! This solves the complete endgame. I would never have found this myself. 

What I do not see is where you apply the clues 1-2 color pattern.
Last edited by chairman - 2008.02.09 23:02:54
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.10 01:30:29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman
What I do not see is where you apply the clues 1-2 color pattern.
You are right the 1-2 color pattern is not required. For some weird reason when I look at this endgame position the first deduction I made was that 1-2 pattern instead of the simpler diagonal rule deduction you made. So yes all that is needed to complete this position is the diagonal direction color rule.

For the record here is the (unnecessary) 1-2 color deduction I made. Using the same 5x5 Chairman puzzle cut, the 1 is @c5r3 and is red the 2 is @c4r2 and the square at the top of the 2 is also red: given the (yellow) color of the ? square (it also gives 2 crosses that are already there in Chairman endgame position)

Could this prove Prj wrong when he claims that any deduction made by color (shading) can also be made by counting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prj
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzy
How can anyone solve these puzzles without shading!?
Any deduction made by shading could also be made by counting.  (Trace a separate loop through the puzzle - it must cross the puzzle loop an even number of times.)  The spots where you can make progress from these deductions become more visible with shading (like Xs do for other deductions), but you can get by with just counting.
But I can not be sure as I am not a counting guy.
So, Prj can you complete this puzzle (#2) without trial and error, color deduction or intuition deduction ?
  - Note that highlander is required.
prj
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 2356
Best Total: 18m 20s
Posted - 2008.02.11 06:50:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by naivoj
So, Prj can you complete this puzzle (#2) without trial and error, color deduction or intuition deduction ?

I don't have Loopy (nor a Windows machine on which to run it, nor a printer to do it on paper).  If it's playable on the web, I can give it a try.
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.11 09:17:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by prj
I don't have Loopy (nor a Windows machine on which to run it, nor a printer to do it on paper).  If it's playable on the web, I can give it a try.
Hopefully you can print it from this PNG file UserBeast#2.PNG

The German site Slither Link [janko.at] http://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Slitherlink/index.htm has 21 web playable 45x30 puzzles. Can somebody tells if this site allows users to post puzzle? I can't figure this out, as I do not understand German.
  - Note that the janko.at link I just post is not working for me (that is why I insert the url address as text).
    I double check everything and I don't see what is wrong?
Last edited by Naivoj - 2008.02.11 09:21:37
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2008.02.11 14:45:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by naivoj
Note that the janko.at link I just post is not working for me (that is why I insert the url address as text). I double check everything and I don't see what is wrong?

Your URL is missing some capitals.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1705
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2008.02.11 17:57:04
The new and improved version of the puzzle solver here will allow you to solve beasts online... although they might be a bit small/fiddly to do! It's hopefully coming soon (within the next month maybe?) and basically is a straightforward replacement of the current javascript puzzle solver with a new Abode Flash version. This works at massive sizes without slowing to a crawl, and can be easily scaled. Of course, the current javascript version will still be available for those who don't like Flash (I know there are some!) so don't panic...
Naivoj
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 314
Best Total: 33m 50s
Posted - 2008.02.11 20:03:52
Quote:
Originally Posted by procrastinator
Your URL is missing some capitals.
No, the capitals are there (I pasted the url directly from the German site). Strangely today the link is working and I did not reboot my computer or modify the link? Yesterday the link was bringing me to an error page where the url characters were all changed to lowercase (although again capitals were/are in the link)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foilman
The new and improved version of the puzzle solver here will allow you to solve beasts online... although they might be a bit small/fiddly to do!..., and can be easily scaled.
Thanks Foilman, I am looking forward to this upcoming feature. Color will still be available, right?
Last edited by Naivoj - 2008.02.11 20:05:15
Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3523
Best Total: 9m 35s
Posted - 2008.02.11 20:21:25
chairman
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1395
Best Total: 17m 32s
Posted - 2008.02.11 21:05:43
Should not the middle line of blue characters be  o o o e ?

edit: No it should not. Apologies.
Last edited by chairman - 2008.02.11 22:16:11
Page 1 of 6123456>

Forum Index