| Solution (Saturday, 7th October 2017) |
Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5669
Best Total: 9m 35s | Posted - 2017.10.07 21:52:49
solution
Last edited by Jankonyex - 2017.10.07 21:53:09 |
puzzlescot
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3249
Best Total: 19m 5s | Posted - 2017.10.08 13:43:15
That's crazy fast. well done.
> Kwon-Tom Obsessive
How true! |
arbor8
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5367
Best Total: 13m 24s | Posted - 2017.10.08 16:26:44
Yes, the upper left corner went neatly, indeed. Overall, this was a difficult one |
Darklady
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5369
Best Total: 9m 37s | Posted - 2017.10.09 06:27:41
I don't know exactly how to describe it, but this puzzle had a lot of areas of significant size which could have one potential path or no path. Kinda like this:
If you see an area like that within a puzzle, you might not be able to easily deduce whether or not there's a path passing through the middle of that section. However, I feel like when the generator creates a section like that, there usually is a path there? So you may not be able to make a firm deduction, but you can use that to inform any guesses or explorations you might want to make.
For Saturday's puzzle, once I ran out of easy deductions, I decided "okay let's just put a path in the two or three sections that look like that and see where that goes", and sure enough those were all correct guesses. Normally I'd be more hesitant to make multiple guesses like that, but here I felt pretty confident about them, and it got me a time two minutes faster than the current second place, so it worked out pretty well!
(I've been thinking a lot about heuristics for better guessing, these past few months...) |
MondSemmel
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6159
Best Total: 7m 47s | Posted - 2017.10.11 20:09:37
Quote: Originally Posted by Darklady If you see an area like that within a puzzle, you might not be able to easily deduce whether or not there's a path passing through the middle of that section. However, I feel like when the generator creates a section like that, there usually is a path there? So you may not be able to make a firm deduction, but you can use that to inform any guesses or explorations you might want to make.
[..]
(I've been thinking a lot about heuristics for better guessing, these past few months...) |
Oh, that's an interesting idea. When solving puzzles, besides the direct rules of Slither Link, we are all aware of the additional "hidden rule" that puzzles on this site necessarily have a unique solution, which allows us to make highlander deductions.
What you're saying, if I understand you correctly, is that while the puzzle generator guarantees unique puzzles, it also encourages / prefers to fill areas (vs. leaving them empty), so one could use this as a heuristic during trial & error explorations?
Expanding on this idea a bit, I suppose every version of every puzzle generator (on this website and on others) has been programmed with certain 'preferences' (e.g. it makes 10x10 puzzles with a certain density of lines, and maybe favors / disfavors certain patterns) to make interesting puzzles. And if one could learn these preferences, this knowledge might help one solve the puzzles. |
Darklady
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5369
Best Total: 9m 37s | Posted - 2017.10.12 02:10:44
Quote: Originally Posted by MondSemmel What you're saying, if I understand you correctly, is that while the puzzle generator guarantees unique puzzles, it also encourages / prefers to fill areas (vs. leaving them empty), so one could use this as a heuristic during trial & error explorations? |
Yes, exactly.
Though in this case it's not just about the generator having a preference for filling areas. See, an area that doesn't have a path going through it could have multiple possibilities for how a path might pass through it just as easily as one possibility, barring a generator that actively tries to create red herrings for the player. The generator won't think "okay, there isn't a path here, but it might look to the player like there could be one, so I'd better make sure there aren't any obvious highlanders the player can use to rule out this area" - it'll only make sure that there's one and only one possibility in the areas where the path actually goes.
(Well, I'm assuming that the generator isn't that clever... but I figure that's a pretty safe assumption.) |
Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5669
Best Total: 9m 35s | Posted - 2017.10.12 04:32:17
I tends to believe it's side effect by generator preferences.
To create a puzzle justifying for it's size, empty surroundings and empty areas are in some extent prevented, by methods like controlling total loop length, controlling line densities in different areas / surroundings, limiting consecutive zero's, etc. Puzzles on this site have certain characteristics other than puzzle logic. Uniqueness is one of them, difficulty is one of them, loop appearance is probably another one. Assisting puzzle solving by analyzing puzzle characteristics is a nice thought. |
barncat
Kwon-Tom Fan
Puzzles: 12 | Posted - 2017.10.15 14:18:16
@Jankonyex- Can you explain the vertical line drawn down from the (0,3) point (0:31 in the video)? That's the one move I can't understand.
Last edited by barncat - 2017.10.15 14:38:00 |
Zyntax
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6326
Best Total: 13m 6s | Posted - 2017.10.15 16:20:28
I watched the video, but I'm stumped at 0:31.
You changed that X to a line. How did you know that was a line? |
Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5669
Best Total: 9m 35s | Posted - 2017.10.15 22:50:55
Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax I watched the video, but I'm stumped at 0:31.
You changed that X to a line. How did you know that was a line? |
Highlander |
Zyntax
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6326
Best Total: 13m 6s | Posted - 2017.10.18 13:55:30
Quote: Originally Posted by Jankonyex Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax I watched the video, but I'm stumped at 0:31.
You changed that X to a line. How did you know that was a line? |
Highlander |
Yeah but how did you deduce that so quickly in the video? |
MondSemmel
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6159
Best Total: 7m 47s | Posted - 2017.10.18 15:41:49
Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax Quote: Originally Posted by Jankonyex Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax I watched the video, but I'm stumped at 0:31.
You changed that X to a line. How did you know that was a line? |
Highlander |
Yeah but how did you deduce that so quickly in the video? |
I cannot answer for Jankonyex, but I suppose he reasoned that if there were a cross, it would look and behave like the following common highlander pattern:
-> If the questionmark is empty / not a clue, this pattern isn't allowed because there are two potential solutions.
And if one of the 2's is also empty / not a clue, the same reasoning still applies.
Last edited by MondSemmel - 2017.10.18 15:42:19 |
Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5669
Best Total: 9m 35s | Posted - 2017.10.18 23:22:22
Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax Quote: Originally Posted by Jankonyex Quote: Originally Posted by Zyntax I watched the video, but I'm stumped at 0:31.
You changed that X to a line. How did you know that was a line? |
Highlander |
Yeah but how did you deduce that so quickly in the video? |
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Jankonyex
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 5669
Best Total: 9m 35s | Posted - 2017.10.18 23:26:37
Also, the solution I posted here is not optimized. I just redo the puzzle and record it after I finished my official submission. I've just reviewed it and found that the fixed position in the middle of the solution is in fact unnecessary.
Last edited by Jankonyex - 2017.10.18 23:27:57 |
