| Large Picture Puzzles |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.02.24 18:14:25
Hello all,
I'm new here but have been doing these for years now. I recently wrote a generator for making puzzles that have picture answers. In this thread I'll post my new ones.
This one is everyone's favorite mushroom-munching, brick-bashing plumber hero. To see the picture at the end, you will want to shade all the inner spaces in the loop.
Mario Puzzle
A note about difficulty. My generator created a puzzle that was perfectly difficult, meaning every single clue was relevant and necessary for a unique solution. That was waaaay too difficult to solve, requiring trial-and-error guessing several levels down. I went in and added 18 more clues to make it much more manageable. I would appreciate feedback on if it is too easy or hard. For the curious, or those that want to test their homemade solvers, I can post the original perfectly difficult version when I get home from work. |
MondSemmel
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6159
Best Total: 7m 47s | Posted - 2015.02.24 19:15:15
Thanks for making a puzzle! Concerning the difficulty, I solved the puzzle in ~13 min without need for any highlander deductions or trial & error. So I'd lean towards calling it 'easy', to the extent that large puzles can ever be called 'easy'. |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.02.24 19:46:16
Thanks for playing it! Did you see Mario?
What is a highlander deduction? |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.02.24 19:51:17
Oh I get it. "There can be only one."
Incidentally, I never counted that as a bona fide solving technique because it requires absolute trust in the author of the puzzle and rather begs the question. However, it definitely would have made the original puzzle easier for me to solve rather than taking me four hours on a test run before I added superfluous clues.
Last edited by RyTracer - 2015.02.24 20:01:46 |
Authority
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3329
Best Total: 9m 56s | Posted - 2015.02.25 00:16:20
Very cool! I once had the idea of putting a picture in the numbers themselves, but never got around to doing anything with it. This works too, and is easier to code, though it's probably hard to produce a recognizable image out of the final loop.
I would say that this puzzle is far from easy. "Easy" to me means "I can solve this without even really thinking at all", and I had to think plenty to get this one done. My solver (which is, admittedly, not all that good) can't even solve this, which means, officially, that it is worse at slitherlinks than MondSemmel. Neither me or my solver use highlander, which may skew it easier.
I'd definitely be interested in more, this is an interesting idea. |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.02.25 07:30:13
Thanks Authority. I notice it is a trend on here and on your handmade puzzles to make patterns of the clues, not the answers. I noted your Pac-Man one on the forums. Maybe it would be possible to do both.
I actually used your solver a couple of times to test the puzzle at various stages, since you do use pattern recognition over my brute force program, it would seem more like another human. I found something weird though. The program was inconsistent about when it would find various lines in its partial solution. I ran it on the bare bones puzzle, it found lines X and Y, then I ADDED a few clues, and though it found more of the puzzle, it missed X and Y with more information. I'll see if I can reproduce the results if you're interested, but that was several versions of the puzzle ago. I like watching yours work. Mine has no graphical features yet, just text, so I don't really know how close it is to solving till it's done. |
LoopGuy
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 761
Best Total: 45m 59s | Posted - 2015.02.25 10:42:22
I experimented with having the clues be in one shape and the results in another (related) shape, but didn't get very far with it, and the puzzles tended to be very easy, or the solution was complicated enough that it was hard to see the end result (I think I saw Mario, but it's harder to see with all my little x's in there). I concluded that certain shapes worked better as a result, while others worked better as a clue, and it would take a long time to craft one that worked while still being an interesting puzzle to solve.
This took me about 2 hours, more or less. The timer didn't work when I saved it and loaded it in multiple tabs, which I tend to do with larger puzzles. |
MondSemmel
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 6159
Best Total: 7m 47s | Posted - 2015.02.25 20:31:37
Quote: Originally Posted by Authority I would say that this puzzle is far from easy. "Easy" to me means "I can solve this without even really thinking at all", and I had to think plenty to get this one done. |
To clarify, by calling the puzzle "easy", I wasn't trying to put down people who have a tough time with this puzzle. My definition of "easy" is just different from the one above. If I can solve a puzzle with no trial & error exploration, nor highlander deductions, I'll call it "easy". Other people, who maybe haven't spent as much time on slither link puzzles or aren't aware of the whole suite of solving techniques, may struggle with the same puzzle.
Last edited by MondSemmel - 2015.02.25 20:32:26 |
LoopGuy
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 761
Best Total: 45m 59s | Posted - 2015.02.25 21:13:33
Quote: Originally Posted by MondSemmel So I'd lean towards calling it 'easy', to the extent that large puzles can ever be called 'easy'. |
That's very true. I had to restart completely once, and even working slower, I had to revert back to a saved stopping point once as well. I don't think that it was extremely hard, it just had so many elements that I was bound to make a mistake or two, just from breakdowns in concentration if nothing else.
A "Monday" puzzle tends to fail within a few line segments after a guess. Some of these "guesses" had 20 or 25 line segments before they ran into an impossible situation. I'd say that it was about "Wednesday", with added difficulty for being so big, so I'd call it at least a "Medium". |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.02.27 18:33:49
Quote: Originally Posted by LoopGuy I think I saw Mario, but it's harder to see with all my little x's in there |
He should pretty much pop out regardless of the X's if you:
A. click on all the cells that make up the inside of the loop to shade them on the large setting, or
B. take a screenshot of the finished puzzle and in an editor drop a paint bucket fill on the inside loop.
Voila! A monochrome bitmap! Mario is complete with raccoon ears and tail, eyes, mustache, overalls, etc, and a brick background behind him. |
LoopGuy
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 761
Best Total: 45m 59s | Posted - 2015.02.27 22:32:56
Yes, I took my saved half done version and finished it again, then saved it before I hit complete to double check. Then, I could go back and fill it in, and, yes, he was there.
Next time, maybe you could add a few extra clues so you could have mushroom and coin shaped areas for clues. Of course, it may have made certain areas a bit easier to solve, but with that big of a puzzle, making it easier is not really going to help as much as it would in a 10x10. But that's just my opinion.
Overall, I liked it. I'm glad it worked out that well. |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.03.01 02:16:47
Here's a new one, dedicated to our recently fallen crew member. Live long and prosper!
Spock Puzzle |
qqwref
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3138
Best Total: 13m 3s | Posted - 2015.03.01 06:27:57
Cool puzzles! The Mario one took me ages but the Spock one was only 15 minutes or so. I really like the idea of having the loop make a picture, although even in the best of times it's going to be a bit tough to see. We need a Loopy/KTL game that will display the picture formed from the loop at the end, like Nonogram programs usually do. |
LoopGuy
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 761
Best Total: 45m 59s | Posted - 2015.03.01 08:16:17
About an hour. It definitely seemed easier, and I bet there were a lot less line segments in it. |
Authority
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3329
Best Total: 9m 56s | Posted - 2015.03.04 18:06:52
Quote: Originally Posted by RyTracer I found something weird though. The program was inconsistent about when it would find various lines in its partial solution. I ran it on the bare bones puzzle, it found lines X and Y, then I ADDED a few clues, and though it found more of the puzzle, it missed X and Y with more information. I'll see if I can reproduce the results if you're interested, but that was several versions of the puzzle ago. I like watching yours work. Mine has no graphical features yet, just text, so I don't really know how close it is to solving till it's done. |
The guessing functionality of my solver is pretty weird sometimes, yeah. I don't know if I've come across that specific issue, but it does not surprise me. I'm glad someone used it for some good, though!
Quote: Originally Posted by RyTracer Here's a new one, dedicated to our recently fallen crew member. Live long and prosper! |
I enjoyed this one as well, these are very nice. |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.03.14 03:22:45
My favorite author died on Thursday, so here is his tribute puzzle. Enjoy!
Pratchett Puzzle |
LoopGuy
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 761
Best Total: 45m 59s | Posted - 2015.03.18 06:14:12
My favorite author as well. Nice tribute. |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.03.19 01:19:09
Hey all, after using kwon-tom loop for awhile, I find that it doesn't work that well for picture answers, so I made my own client. This one allows you to fill in the completed loop with a paint-bucket tool and the picture really pops out. Also, I've often wanted to fix more than one position and do several levels deep of guessing. This program allows 4 fixed positions. Give it a whirl. You can play any puzzle in loopy format with it, and it comes with four of my picture puzzles included. The one that I haven't posted here is about one of my favorite games, Deadly Rooms of Death.
Picture Slitherlink Program
P.S. You'll definitely want to read the readme.
Last edited by RyTracer - 2015.03.19 01:20:15 |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.04.04 05:22:10
Hello all,
I've been working on modifying all my programs to generate puzzles with other tilings, like the Snub Square tiling. Are you into that? Well, it's taking some time, so I took a break and went back to the grid again, this time a tribute to the dumbest, yet hungriest creature in the galaxy. Enjoy. Oh, and this one has that nice rotational symmetry of clues that this website likes so much.
Dopefish Puzzle
As always, color in the finished design and step back from the screen. Or use my nifty client program.
Last edited by RyTracer - 2015.04.04 05:24:12 |
RyTracer
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 150
Best Total: 1h 28m 51s | Posted - 2015.08.20 20:03:44
Well everybody, I have been super busy in the Picture Puzzles department. I've reworked all the puzzles so far to be easier, and made very nice Pinky and the Brain puzzles. But here's the big news: we are no longer confined to squares! If you haven't tried a Slitherlink/Kwon-Tom Loop that uses a grid other than squares, you really should. It will expand your mind in all kinds of ways and much of the logic from squares can be used in other types, but new tricks are needed, too.
Here's a link to the program, which looks much nicer than it used to as well.
Picture Slither
Here's a brief description of the 10 puzzles in it:
brain - squares - a lab mouse that wants to take over the world
dinosaurs - cairo pentagons - 5 dinosaurs in the scene
dopefish - squares - Commander Keen's aquatic nemesis
gotham - snub (squares and triangles) - Batman responds to the bat signal
hylian - laves - Link's shield from Zelda
mario - squares - Raccoon Mario
pinky - squares - a lab mouse that says Narf!
pratchett - squares - Terry Pratchett (author, r.i.p.)
spock - squares - from Star Trek (r.i.p.)
yoda - snub - Jedi master |
